4.Krystal Rolle — Direct/Cross
316 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. EVERDELL:
MR. EVERDELL: Good morning, Ms. Rolle.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Good morning, Mr. Everdell.
MR. EVERDELL: Where do you live, Ms. Rolle?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I live in New Providence, Nassau, Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Are you a citizen of the Bahamas?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I am.
MR. EVERDELL: What is your profession?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I am a counsel, attorney at law, practicing in the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: And where are you licensed?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I'm licensed to practice in the Bahamas as well as in any jurisdiction in the Caribbean.
MR. EVERDELL: When did you begin practicing law?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: In October of 1995.
MR. EVERDELL: Where did you obtain your legal education?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I obtained my bachelor's of law degree at the University of the West Indies, Cave Hill campus, Barbados; I obtained my legal education certificate of merit, which is equivalent to the bar equivalency, at the Norman Manley Law School in Jamaica.
MR. EVERDELL: And when did you receive your law degree from University of West Indies?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: In 1993.
MR. EVERDELL: Where did you work when you started practicing law?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: In 1995, I started off my career in the litigation department of the firm of McKinney Bancroft & Hughes; I then went to the litigation department of Graham Thompson; and in January of 2003, I entered into partnership with my husband Wallace Rolle, in the firm of Rolle & Rolle.
MR. EVERDELL: And is that where you currently practice?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: It is.
MR. EVERDELL: Are you familiar with the term King's Counsel?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I am. I am a King's Counsel.
MR. EVERDELL: Can you describe what that is, please.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: King's Counsel is a senior trial lawyer who has been appointed by the Monarch, by the Crown, as one of its counsel, learned in the law.
MR. EVERDELL: And when you say the Crown, what are you referring to?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: The Monarch of England.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Understood. And when did you become a King's Counsel?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well, I became a Queen's Counsel initially——
MR. EVERDELL: Yes.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: ——in February of 2020, and when the Queen passed in September of last year, automatically became a King's Counsel.
MR. EVERDELL: And what does it mean to be a Queen's Counsel or King's Counsel?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well, it's a designation of honor. You are recognized as a premier advocate in your jurisdiction.
MR. EVERDELL: And how many King's Counsels are there, in the Bahamas?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: At present, practicing, there are approximately 40, and that is of a bar of about 2,000 attorneys, so there are 40 of us.
MR. EVERDELL: What are your primary practice areas, Ms. Rolle?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: My primary practice area is civil litigation, and that includes all manner of civil litigation, including commercial, corporate, personal injuries, I used to do some family work——not a whole lot of it anymore——and I don't do any criminal.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Ms. Rolle, do you know Sam Bankman-Fried?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I do know Mr. Bankman-Fried.
MR. EVERDELL: How do you know him?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Mr. Bankman-Fried is my client in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: And when were you retained by Mr. Bankman-Fried in the Bahamas?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I was retained on the morning of 12th November 2022.
MR. EVERDELL: What, if anything, happened on the morning of 12th of November that led you to be retained?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I was retained for the purpose of accompanying Mr. Bankman-Fried at his interview that had been scheduled at the Securities Commission of the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Can you tell the jury what the Securities Commission of the Bahamas is.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So the Securities Commission of the Bahamas is a statutory body, so it's created by statute, and it is the sole regulator who oversees and regulates commercial securities business in the Bahamas, so that includes all manner of securities business, capital markets, mutual and investment funds, and then more recently digital asset business.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And are they sometimes referred to as the SCB?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes, that's the abbreviation.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And who is the head of the SCB?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: The executive director, Christina Rolle.
MR. EVERDELL: And that's the same last name. Are you related?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Not at all. I must say Rolle is the most common name in the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Got it. You mentioned digital asset companies that the SCB has some jurisdiction over?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Can you explain that a little bit.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well, it's a pretty recent development. There's a piece of legislation that was passed at the end of 2020. That's called the Digital Assets Registered Exchange Act. And so subsequent to the passage of that legislation, they then became regulators of digital asset business.
MR. EVERDELL: Did the SCB have any regulatory oversight over FTX?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: They did.
MR. EVERDELL: Which FTX entity did the SCB regulate?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: That would be FTX Digital Markets Ltd., which is a Bahamian entity.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And where is that entity in relation to the rest of the company?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well——
JUDGE KAPLAN: Ground?
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained.
MR. EVERDELL: Are you familiar with where FTX Digital Markets sits in relation to other FTX entities?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well, FTX Digital Markets I believe to be a subsidiary, but it is incorporated in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Now you mentioned that the SCB requested that Mr. Bankman-Fried appear for an interview; is that right?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: That is correct.
MR. EVERDELL: Where——sorry——when was the interview supposed to take place?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: On the 12th of November at 12 noon at their premises in the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And how was it that Mr. Bankman-Fried became aware that he needed to appear for this interview?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: He was notified of his——that his attendance was required.
MR. EVERDELL: Do you know how he was notified?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I——I can't say. I don't know.
MR. EVERDELL: What, if any, was your understanding of the nature of the appearance?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: The nature of the appearance was that this interview was being conducted as a part of an investigation that the SCB was conducting into the collapse of FTX.
MR. EVERDELL: And was there any indication about whether the interview was voluntary or compulsory?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Given that it was a part of their investigation and given the fact that liquidation proceedings had already been commenced, as it relates to the Bahamian entity, it was mandatory for him to attend.
MR. EVERDELL: And when you say liquidation proceedings, can you explain what you mean by that.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I would imagine that it would be akin to bankruptcy proceedings.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Can you elaborate a little bit on that.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well, the Securities Commission had made application to the Supreme Court of the Bahamas to place FTX Digital Markets Ltd. into liquidation, and an order was granted by the Supreme Court on the 10th of November 2022.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Let's talk a little more about the interview.
Did you accompany Mr. Bankman-Fried to the interview at the SCB?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I most certainly did.
MR. EVERDELL: And did you represent Mr. Bankman-Fried in connection with the proceedings before the SCB?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I did.
MR. EVERDELL: All right. What time did you arrive at the offices of the SCB?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I arrived shortly before noon.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Was Mr. Bankman-Fried there?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: He was there at the time of my arrival, yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And about when did the interview begin?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: It began at approximately 12:40 p.m.
MR. EVERDELL: Who was present for that interview?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So there were a number of persons: first of all, the personnel from the Securities Commission——the Executive Director Christina Rolle, and she had three members of her team, who were Ms. Mechelle Martinborough, Mr. Gawaine Ward, and Mr. Gladstone Brown; besides the Securities Commission personnel, there was myself; there was Mr. Bankman-Fried; and there was Mr. Joseph Bankman; the provisional liquidator who had been appointed by the court, Mr. Brian Simms, was present; as well as an assistant of his, Ms. Sophia Rolle——again, no connection; and there was one of the members of PricewaterhouseCoopers, I don't remember his name at the moment; and a stenographer.
MR. EVERDELL: Understood. You mentioned the provisional liquidator. Can you just explain what that was.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So once the Securities Commission had petitioned the court to place FTX Digital Markets into liquidation, the court appointed a provisional liquidator. This is an individual who has then the responsibility of carrying out the liquidation process. So the person that was appointed was Mr. Brian Simms, and Mr. Simms was present.
MR. EVERDELL: And do you know why they were present for the interview?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well, having been appointed as the provisional liquidators of FTX Digital Markets, they were then involved in the process of carrying out the liquidation.
MR. EVERDELL: And how long did that interview last?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Just short of three hours.
MR. EVERDELL: So approximately when did it end?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Shortly after 3 p.m.
MR. EVERDELL: What happened after the interview at the SCB concluded?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: After the interview at the premises of SCB concluded, we then went to the office of FTX Digital Markets situated in the Bahamas as well.
MR. EVERDELL: Where is that?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: In the Western District, on the island of New Providence, Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: And who went back to the FTX offices after the interview?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: All the individuals that I listed. Should I list them again or——
MR. EVERDELL: No need.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: With the exclusion of Mr. Joseph Bankman.
MR. EVERDELL: And what was the purpose for going to the offices after the interview?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: For the purpose of having Mr. Bankman-Fried then officially turn over the premises to the provisional liquidator.
MR. EVERDELL: What happened when you arrived at the offices?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Sometime after we had arrived, we were then notified by Christina Rolle——that is the Executive Director of SCB——that the Commission had made an order against Mr. Bankman-Fried directing him to turn over the digital assets of FTX to the custody of the Securities Commission.
MR. EVERDELL: Did you see this order?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: We were shown a copy of it on a laptop and it was read to us.
MR. EVERDELL: Did you later see a written copy of this order?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: We were then presented with a written copy on the following business day, which was Monday, the 14th.
MR. EVERDELL: And just to be clear, what day was the——
KRYSTAL ROLLE: The 12th was Saturday, so this was Saturday afternoon that——that the interview took place and that we then went to the premises of FTX.
MR. EVERDELL: And how did you——well, when you were on the premises, how did you receive the order on the premises on the 12th?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: On the 12th, it was read to us, and it was shown to me on a laptop.
MR. EVERDELL: And how did you receive it two days later when you saw the written copy?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: A hard copy was delivered to my office, and I also received it by email.
MR. EVERDELL: And did the Securities Commission ever make that order public?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: They did. It was subsequently posted on their website.
MR. EVERDELL: All right. I would like to show for you, Ms. Rolle, what's been marked for identification as Defense Exhibit 837.
MR. EVERDELL: Brian, if you could just show that to the witness, please.
MR. EVERDELL: Ms. Rolle, do you see what's in front of you there?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I do.
MR. EVERDELL: And do you recognize that?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I do.
MR. EVERDELL: What is that?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: This is the notice of order that was shown to me on the evening of the 12th November and then hard-copied to me on the 14th.
MR. EVERDELL: And how do you recognize it?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I've seen it before.
MR. EVERDELL: Is it a fair and accurate copy of the order that was shown to you on the 12th and that you received later?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: At the moment I'm only seeing the first page. That is.
MR. EVERDELL: Let's let you look at the second page as well. If you could flip to the second page.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes, and that second page, that is it, yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And is that order signed?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: It is.
MR. EVERDELL: Who is it signed by?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: It is signed by Christina Rolle, the Executive Director of the Securities Commission.
MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, at this time defense offers Defense Exhibit 837.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Received.
(Defendant's Exhibit 837 received in evidence)
MR. EVERDELL: All right. If we can publish that to the jury.
BY MR. EVERDELL:
MR. EVERDELL: All right. Ms. Rolle, this is the order that the Securities Commission read out orally at the offices on the 12th?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: It is.
JUDGE KAPLAN: I think we've covered that.
MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor.
MR. EVERDELL: Why don't we skip to the second page of the order.
And if we can first look at paragraph 6 of the order.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Do you see that, Ms. Rolle?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I do.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Can you——without reading the whole thing, can you just summarize what that provision provides for.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So it is notifying Mr. Bankman-Fried that the Commission has taken a decision that he is to transfer all of the digital assets of FTX to the Securities Commission.
MR. EVERDELL: And when you say FTX, which FTX are we talking about there?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: FTXDM. That would be FTX Digital Markets Ltd., the Bahamian entity.
MR. EVERDELL: Right. So just to read it, read the language there, it says, "to transfer to an account and/or digital wallet(s) established and maintained by the Commission all of the digital assets on the FTX.com platform within the possession, custody and/or under the control of FTXDM, and its officers, directors, employees, and/or agents."
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Correct?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes, correct.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. We can take down that highlight.
And if we can look at paragraph 7.
MR. EVERDELL: Do you see that paragraph, Ms. Rolle?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I do.
MR. EVERDELL: Can you summarize for the jury what that paragraph means.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So this paragraph is now the order, the actual directive directing Mr. Bankman-Fried to transfer the digital assets of FTXDM to the Securities Commission of the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And was Mr. Bankman-Fried subject to this order?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: He was.
MR. EVERDELL: All right. We can take that down.
MR. EVERDELL: All right. Ms. Rolle, after the order was read out that we just saw, what happened next?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Approximately 45 minutes later to an hour, we were then notified that an order had been made by the Supreme Court of the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And when you say the Supreme Court of the Bahamas, what's that court?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So the Supreme Court is the highest trial court. We refer to this as the first instance court. It's the highest court other than an appellate court.
MR. EVERDELL: So there are levels above the Supreme Court?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Appellate court. There's the Court of Appeal and the Privy Council in London.
MR. EVERDELL: How did you learn that the Supreme Court of Bahamas had issued an order?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: We were notified of this fact by Christina Rolle and also by her counsel, who was then present.
MR. EVERDELL: And how did you become aware of the order?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: We were advised of it verbally by counsel for the Securities Commission, Mr. Robert Adams, KC.
MR. EVERDELL: And did you later see the written order itself?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: We did.
MR. EVERDELL: When was that?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: On Monday, 14th of November, we were then served with a filed copy of the order.
MR. EVERDELL: All right. I want to show you what's been marked for identification as Defense Exhibit 836.
MR. EVERDELL: If we can just show that to the witness, please.
MR. EVERDELL: Ms. Rolle, do you see what's in front of you?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I do.
MR. EVERDELL: What is that in front of you?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So this is the first page of the court order that I just referenced, issued by the Supreme Court of the Bahamas.
MR. EVERDELL: Why don't we let Ms. Rolle look at each page, so we can scroll through. A. Yes, and this is the second page that I'm now looking at.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And is this a fair copy of the court order that you saw, that you saw on the 14th that was read to you on the 12th?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes, it is.
MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, the defense offers Defense Exhibit 836.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Received.
(Defendant's Exhibit 836 received in evidence)
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. All right. If we could publish that to the jury.
BY MR. EVERDELL:
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. Ms. Rolle, let's take a quick look at this document. You see the title there, the caption, The Securities Commission of the Bahamas and FTX Digital Markets Ltd., you see that?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes, I do.
MR. EVERDELL: So we've discussed what the Securities Commission of the Bahamas is, yes?
JUDGE KAPLAN: Mr. Everdell, can we get to your point, please.
MR. EVERDELL: All right. We can take the callout down.
Let's go to date. If we can just highlight the date of the document.
JUDGE KAPLAN: I'm sorry. Could we get to your point.
MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor.
We'll move to the second page. And if we could highlight the "IT IS HEREBY ORDERED THAT."
BY MR. EVERDELL:
MR. EVERDELL: All right. Ms. Rolle, do you see that language in front of you?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I do.
MR. EVERDELL: You don't have to read the whole thing out, but can you just summarize what that means for the jury.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: So essentially the Securities Commission of the Bahamas, as the regulator, which has jurisdiction over FTX, its officers, directors, directs FTX, its said officers and directors, to transfer all of the digital assets of the company into the custody of the Securities Commission.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And was Mr. Bankman-Fried subject to this order?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: He was.
MR. EVERDELL: What consequences could he have faced if he did not comply with this order?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Well, this is a court order issued by the Supreme Court. Failure to comply has a result of being held in contempt of court and imprisonment.
MR. EVERDELL: We can take that down, Brian.
MR. EVERDELL: After the Securities Commission Executive Director presented orally this order, what happened next?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Mr. Bankman-Fried, in conjunction with Mr. Gary Wang, then began the process of transferring the assets into wallets that had been created by the Securities Commission for that purpose.
MR. EVERDELL: And how long did this process take?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Very, very long. Didn't leave the premises until after 2 a.m. that night, from the following day.
MR. EVERDELL: And did anything else happen at FTX offices that evening while the assets were being transferred?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes. During the process of the transfer of assets, two officers from the Commercial Crime Division of the Royal Bahamas Police force showed up.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And what happened next?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: We met with them, being myself and Mr. Bankman-Fried, and we offered to have Mr. Bankman-Fried attend an interview with them the following week rather than accompany them that evening for the purpose of questioning.
MR. EVERDELL: And what, if anything, happened with respect to passports?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Mr. Bankman-Fried agreed to surrender his passport as an indication of good faith, consistent with his agreement to surrender himself for questioning the following week rather than be taken that evening for questioning.
MR. EVERDELL: Did you see, what, if anything, occurred with Mr. Wang's passport?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: The same.
MR. EVERDELL: Did you have——did you continue to represent Mr. Bankman-Fried after the events of that evening?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I did.
MR. EVERDELL: And did you have occasion to observe his interactions with the SCB after the SCB interview on the 12th?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I did. I accompanied him on a number of interviews with the SCB after the 12th of November.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And what was the nature of those interactions?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Pretty much the same; continuing questioning as to the events of the FTX collapse.
MR. EVERDELL: And did you have occasion to observe his interaction with the provisional liquidators after the SCB interview?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I did. I accompanied him on at least one of those meetings with the liquidator.
MR. EVERDELL: Okay. And what were the nature of those interactions?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Similar to that as the Securities Commission fact-finding questioning.
MR. EVERDELL: One moment.
Nothing further, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Thank you.
Any cross?
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. ROOS:
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Good morning.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I don't think so.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Likewise.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I have, yes.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Difficult for me to say. I've had discussions with them relative to proceedings in the Bahamas.
MR. ROOS: Okay. And did you have a chance to talk with them in advance of your testimony here today about the testimony?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I have.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I would say this morning.
MR. ROOS: Okay. And just to be clear, you weren't doing anything wrong when you spoke to them in advance of your testimony here today.
MR. EVERDELL: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained as to form.
MR. ROOS: Did you think you were doing anything wrong when you spoke to them in advance of your testimony?
MR. EVERDELL: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Overruled.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: No, I don't.
MR. EVERDELL: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Overruled.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Not to my knowledge, no.
MR. ROOS: Now, and just to be clear, meetings in advance of your testimony did not affect your truthful answers in the testimony, right?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Absolutely not, no.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: That's correct.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I don't know that FTX declared bankruptcy. They were put into liquidation by the Securities Commission.
MR. ROOS: I'm sorry. Do you know——I'll ask it this way: Do you know when, if you know, there was a bankruptcy in the United States?
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I'm vaguely familiar with that, now.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: As a lawyer for Sam Bankman-Fried personally, yes.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Not at all. Was not even familiar with FTX.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Not at all, no.
MR. ROOS: And so the information that you have here today is irrelevant to what happened before the liquidation, right?
MR. EVERDELL: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained as to form.
MR. ROOS: The information you've testified today relates to stuff after the liquidation proceedings occurred, right?
MR. EVERDELL: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Overruled.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: I don't know when the liquidation proceedings occurred. The information that I gave today is as to the occurrences on the 12th of November and thereafter.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Correct.
MR. ROOS: The information you gave today doesn't relate to anything prior to the 12th of November.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: You're welcome.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Thank you.
Mr. Everdell, anything else?
MR. EVERDELL: Nothing further for this witness, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Thank you.
Ms. Rolle, thank you very much. You're excused.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Thank you, your Honor.
(Witness excused)
JUDGE KAPLAN: Next witness.
MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, the defense calls Joseph Pimbley.
COURT CLERK: Remain standing, raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn)
COURT CLERK: Thank you. Please be seated.
Pull yourself up to the microphone. Would you please state your name and spell your last name for the record.
KRYSTAL ROLLE: Yes. My name is Joseph Pimbley, P-I-M-B-L-E-Y.
COURT CLERK: Thank you. JOSEPH PIMBLEY, called as a witness by the Defendant, having been duly sworn, testified as follows: