2.Marc Troiano — Direct/Cross
279 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. KUDLA:
MS. KUDLA: Good morning, Agent Troiano.
MARC TROIANO: Good morning.
MS. KUDLA: Where do you work?
MARC TROIANO: I work for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
MS. KUDLA: What's your title there?
MARC TROIANO: I'm a special agent.
MS. KUDLA: And how long have you been a special agent with the FBI?
MARC TROIANO: About eight years.
MS. KUDLA: Are you assigned to any particular unit?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: What unit is that?
MARC TROIANO: I work on a corporate securities and commodities fraud squad.
MS. KUDLA: What, if anything, were you asked to do for this case?
MARC TROIANO: Sure. I was asked to review Signal groups found on two different devices, one belonging to Gary Wang, which is a laptop, and then one belonging to Caroline Ellison, which was a phone, and review the Signal groups for information found within there.
MS. KUDLA: Apart from your review, did you have any other involvement in this case?
MARC TROIANO: No, I did not.
MS. KUDLA: Now, your Honor, at this time the government offers S2006, an authenticity stipulation regarding electronic devices.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Received.
(Government Exhibit S2006 received in evidence)
MS. KUDLA: May we publish to the jury?
JUDGE KAPLAN: You may.
MS. KUDLA: Agent Troiano, you mentioned that you had reviewed Gary Wang's laptop and Caroline Ellison's cell phone extraction, is that correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: While we are waiting for that to come up, I can read some of the stipulation to the jury.
Paragraph 1 states that: On November 16, 2022, an Apple iPhone with a particular IMEI number and FBI evidence number ending in 1B10, the Caroline Ellison cell phone was lawfully recovered by FBI agents, that Government Exhibit 1662 is a copy of certain contents and data extracted from the Caroline Ellison cell phone. The information in Government Exhibit 1662 was contained on the Ellison cell phone at the time it was seized on November 16, 2022. And paragraph 2 states that, on November 17, 2022, a Dell laptop with a particular serial number and FBI evidence item ending in 1B13, the Gary Wang laptop, was lawfully recovered by FBI agents.
MS. KUDLA: Agent Troiano, are those the electronics that you reviewed for your Signal group analysis?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: Now, how would you describe the volume of data contained in the Signal groups on the Wang laptop and the Ellison phone extraction?
MARC TROIANO: It was quite voluminous. There were hundreds of chats with hundreds of participants.
MS. KUDLA: Mr. Bianco, can you please show the witness what's marked for identification as Government Exhibit 1083.
MS. KUDLA: Agent Troiano, you should have a binder there and there should be a printed copy as well.
Agent Troiano, what is Government Exhibit 1083?
MARC TROIANO: This is a chart that shows the different Signal groups that Samuel Bankman-Fried participated in from 2020 to 2022, and they were taken from the -- the data was taken from Gary Wang's laptop, the Signal group that he had there or Signal app that he had there, and the Caroline Ellison phone extraction.
MS. KUDLA: Have you reviewed all of the information contained in this chart?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 1083, pursuant to Rule 1006.
MR. EVERDELL: No objection, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.
MR. EVERDELL: No objection, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: It's received.
(Government Exhibit 1083 received in evidence)
MS. KUDLA: Your Honor, may we publish?
JUDGE KAPLAN: You may.
MS. KUDLA: Agent Troiano, now that this is visible to the jury, at a high level, can you summarize what this chart contains?
MARC TROIANO: Sure. So this is a chart that shows the different Signal groups that Samuel Bankman-Fried was in from 2020 to 2022. You'll see the first column says group name and that's what the group was called. Again, this data was pulled from the Gary Wang laptop, his Signal app on there, and the Caroline Ellison phone extraction.
The next column you will see is participants and that's the people that were present in those Signal groups when the review began once the devices were obtained.
And the last column is auto-deletion status. That shows the different auto-deletion settings that were found in the group when we obtained it.
MS. KUDLA: Agent Troiano, let's take a look at row 1 as an example to go through the auto-deletion status. In row 1, in the auto-deletion status column it says: May 11, 2021, one week.
What does that mean?
MARC TROIANO: So that means that, as of May 11 of 2021, the auto-deletion status was set at one week, meaning that the messages would remain for a week and then disappear.
MS. KUDLA: Below that it also says November 9, 2022, auto deletion turned off, SBF.
What is recorded here?
MARC TROIANO: So that shows that, as of that date, the auto-deletion function was turned off, meaning that the message would stay, it wouldn't be deleted, and the last part, SBF, that indicates that in this case Samuel Bankman-Fried was the one who had turned off the auto-deletion function.
MS. KUDLA: Mr. Bianco, if we can now zoom in on row 16.
MS. KUDLA: This portion of the chart does not have anything in auto-deletion status.
What does that signify?
MARC TROIANO: That means there was no auto-deletion policy for that group, meaning that none of the messages were automatically deleted.
MS. KUDLA: Mr. Bianco, we can take that down now.
MS. KUDLA: To briefly show the jury any variables you evaluated in your review, let's look at the raw data momentarily.
MS. KUDLA: Mr. Bianco, can you please show the witness what's marked for identification as Government Exhibit 3017.
MS. KUDLA: Briefly, what is shown here?
MARC TROIANO: So here you'll see the Signal app view from the two different devices. So on the left this is what you would see if you looked at this particular group from Gary Wang's laptop. And then I took these screenshots here. Then on the right it's the same for what the view looked like from the Caroline Ellison phone extraction. Again, I took those screenshots.
MS. KUDLA: Your Honor, may the government publish Government Exhibit 3017 for demonstrative purposes only?
MR. EVERDELL: No objection for simply demonstrative purposes, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Yes, you may.
MS. KUDLA: Now that's visible to the jury, you said on the left was Gary Wang's laptop.
Can you describe to the jury what we see on the left and the right.
MARC TROIANO: Sure. On the left, these are the screenshots that I took from Gary Wang's laptop, and you will see basically his Signal app. This is what you'd see if you clicked on the hashtag organization Signal group. And you will see the first -- right side, that indicates kind of a log of when people joined and left the group, as well as when the auto-deletion policies were turned on or off or changed. Behind it you will see --
MS. KUDLA: Mr. Bianco, can we take that down now.
MS. KUDLA: When you said behind it, are you referring to --
MARC TROIANO: The forefront photo. The behind photo is where you will see the members of that group.
MS. KUDLA: What is shown on the right?
MARC TROIANO: On the right, this is the view of Signal app from the extraction from Caroline Ellison's phone.
MS. KUDLA: Looking at both of these together now, what is the name of Signal group shown from the Wang laptop and the Ellison phone extraction?
MARC TROIANO: It's hashtag organization.
MS. KUDLA: Did you record that name in Government Exhibit 1083?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: With the participants, how did you identify the participants for Government Exhibit 1083?
MARC TROIANO: If you look at the participants, it will list the name and phone number, so I put the name into the chart.
MS. KUDLA: Were there ever occasions where the participant names were not the same between the Wang laptop and the Ellison phone extraction?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: And what's an example of such a scenario?
MARC TROIANO: There could be a scenario where one person was just an initial, like say the letter C, on like the laptop, and then within the extraction it could be a full name, like Claire or something like that. If that was the case, I would look to see if the phone number matched; and if it did, I would put the most descriptive comprehensive names: Claire.
MS. KUDLA: Let's move on to auto-deletion status, Agent Troiano. Using Government 3017 as a guide, describe what you did to record the auto-deletion feature if it was turned on.
MARC TROIANO: Sure. So for a lot of these groups once a member joined the group, they would see what the current auto-deletion status was at that time.
MR. EVERDELL: Objection. Knowledge of what people would see that's not himself. A. I would see it.
MS. KUDLA: Agent Troiano, is this information based on your review of hundreds of single-group messages?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: You can continue describing what you did for the review.
MARC TROIANO: Sure. When I opened the Signal app on the two different devices, I would see, when somebody was added to a group, you could see what the auto-deletion policy was at that time. I would look to see between the two of them if it was the same period of time, and I would go back to the further -- the most backdated date to have the most comprehensive view of how long that setting had been turned on.
MS. KUDLA: Turning to the right for the Ellison extraction that we look at there, what was the date that the auto-deletion status feature was turned on?
MARC TROIANO: So for this one it looks like the user was added on May 11 of 2021. It was able to see this auto-deletion status of 604800, which is seconds.
MS. KUDLA: What is that equivalent of seconds equal to?
MARC TROIANO: One week.
MS. KUDLA: Did you also record when auto-deletion status was turned off?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: And where do you see that here?
MARC TROIANO: If you look at the bottom, you will see, on November 9 of 2022, it says that Samuel Bankman-Fried set disappearing message time from 604800, that one-week period, to zero, meaning it turned off.
MS. KUDLA: Did you record all of this information in Government Exhibit 1083?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: We can take that down now, Mr. Bianco.
MS. KUDLA: Apart from the data that you just described to the jury, did you review the content of the Signal group messages in any way?
MARC TROIANO: No.
MS. KUDLA: Do you have any knowledge about the identities of the Signal group participants listed in Government Exhibit 1083 apart from the information that you just described?
MARC TROIANO: No.
MS. KUDLA: Now, Mr. Bianco, can you please publish Government Exhibit 1083.
MS. KUDLA: Agent Troiano, does this exhibit contain the results of the review you outlined to the jury for all the Signal groups you reviewed?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MS. KUDLA: Now, Mr. Bianco, please scroll through the first few pages of Government Exhibit 1083 slowly. Then you can go to the last page, which should be page 25.
MS. KUDLA: Between 2020 and 2022, how many Signal groups was Mr. Bankman-Fried a participant in, based on your review?
MARC TROIANO: 325.
MS. KUDLA: And out of those 325 Signal groups, how many had the auto-deletion feature turned on?
MARC TROIANO: 288.
MS. KUDLA: Once again, aside from your work in helping to prepare or review this chart, have you had any other involvement in this case?
MARC TROIANO: No.
MS. KUDLA: No further questions, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Thank you. Any cross-examination?
MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Let the record reflect that the defendant and the jurors all are present, as they have been throughout.
Go ahead.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. EVERDELL:
MR. EVERDELL: Good morning, Special Agent Troiano.
MARC TROIANO: Good morning.
MR. EVERDELL: Special Agent Troiano, you work for the FBI, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Your job is to help the prosecutors investigate their cases, right?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: You weren't one of the case agents on this case, though, correct?
MARC TROIANO: That's correct.
MR. EVERDELL: You were just asked to help out with this particular project you testified about?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And you said that you were asked to review a document that listed various Signal message groups, right?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And those Signal groups came from Signal messages that were contained on Caroline Ellison's iPhone and Gary Wang's laptop, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Now, you didn't originally create the summary document that is now Government Exhibit 1083, is that correct?
MARC TROIANO: I didn't like -- no, not the draft document.
MR. EVERDELL: So the original draft document was created by the prosecutor's office, is that correct?
MARC TROIANO: The prosecutors gave it to me.
MR. EVERDELL: So they gave you the first draft of this document that we now see as Government's 1083, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Then they sent it to you, right?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And the prosecutors had already selected the Signal groups that they wanted on that draft summary document, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And they just asked you to verify the work that they had already done, right?
MARC TROIANO: Yes. They asked me to go through and look to verify the names, the dates, everything.
MR. EVERDELL: If edits needed to be made to the document, the prosecutors told you which information they wanted you to include or exclude, is that right?
MARC TROIANO: If there were edits, if I had changes of like date or things like that, I told them, and I made them myself.
MR. EVERDELL: But if there were certain Signal groups they wanted to exclude or certain ones they wanted to include, they would tell you that?
MARC TROIANO: I am not sure if they took groups out specifically.
MR. EVERDELL: Do you recall ever an instance where they may have told you to exclude a group?
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: What's the objection?
MS. KUDLA: We could do it at a sidebar, your Honor.
(Continued on next page)
(At sidebar).
MS. KUDLA: Your Honor, we asked for certain groups to be removed at defense counsel's request for -- we couldn't reach a stipulation on certain groups that were contained directly from the cell phone extraction or from the laptop, so we removed those just to expedite things. And then also we redacted certain information based on groups that had the word fraud in it. We provided that type of instruction.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Why the redactions?
MS. KUDLA: The defense felt that the names of the group wire fraud and fake fraud site was overly prejudicial.
MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor. We did agree on those sites.
I just want to clarify, on the first one, the one you are referring to, the 302, where you say: Thanks Marc, please exclude that group based on the factors noted below, and it's from September, I was not aware that this was in relation to anything that we agreed upon. That's why I was asking the questions. I'm certainly not trying to ask anything that would be misleading. I just saw it in the 302.
MS. KUDLA: Yeah. We asked him to remove that because that seemed to have no relevance to this case.
MR. EVERDELL: OK. I can move on, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Let's fix the damage that's been done.
MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor.
I am happy to ask him -- if you would prefer me to ask the question. The government can do it on redirect.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Whichever way you want to handle it. There appears to be a misleading impression created. Let's fix it.
MS. KUDLA: He may not know, so I think we could strike the testimony.
MR. EVERDELL: That's fine with me. We will just strike the question, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: What is it precisely you are agreeing should be stricken?
MS. KUDLA: The question, the government directed you to remove certain Signal groups, and his response.
MR. EVERDELL: Happy to do that, your Honor.
MS. SASSOON: While we are at sidebar, your Honor, it occurred to me that it might be worthwhile to contact alternative number 4 and explain to him that the case is ongoing and he should not speak to the press about his impressions of the case or anything that happened in the jury breakout room for risk of prejudicing the case.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Is there any objection to that being done?
MR. EVERDELL: No objection, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Andy, that's your job.
MR. EVERDELL: Just so we are clear, your Honor, do you want me to clarify anything -- we are going to strike the last question.
JUDGE KAPLAN: We are going to strike the testimony about whether he was asked by the prosecutors to remove anything.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
JUDGE KAPLAN: Members of the jury, the question concerning whether the prosecutors ever asked that certain groups be taken off this list and the witness' answer are stricken, and you must disregard that. That's by agreement of the parties.
Let's proceed.
MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. EVERDELL:
MR. EVERDELL: Special Agent Troiano, the groups on your summary chart are groups from the messaging app Signal, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: What is Signal?
MARC TROIANO: Signal is a security messaging app.
MR. EVERDELL: And it's secure -- it uses end-to-end encryption, is that correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: That means it's hard for people who are not the center or the recipient to read it or get access to it, right?
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Ground.
MS. KUDLA: I don't know if he knows. Lack of foundation.
MR. EVERDELL: Are you aware of the features of Signal?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And you mentioned that you were familiar with end-to-end encryption?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Can you just describe what your understanding is of the security features.
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained.
MR. EVERDELL: In your job as an FBI agent, are you generally aware of what types of messaging applications of out there on the market?
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained.
MR. EVERDELL: Are you generally familiar with Signal?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Are you generally aware for how long it has been on the market?
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained.
MR. EVERDELL: Let's look at your summary exhibit, Special Agent Troiano. This is Government Exhibit 1083. You said these are all -- every group that's on this list is a Signal group that Sam Bankman-Fried was on, right?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: If you scroll to the end, there are a total of 325 Signal groups that he is on on your list, is that right?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And all of these groups were active until they got shut down in the November 2022 time frame, right?
MARC TROIANO: What do you define active as?
MR. EVERDELL: I should say that -- fair point. Let me withdraw.
All these groups at least were able to be used until November of 2022, right?
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Just give me a moment to deal with something else.
Give me a sec.
The objection is on what ground?
MS. KUDLA: Outside the scope of his knowledge. He was asked to do a very limited task.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained. This is outside the scope.
MR. EVERDELL: In your summary chart you note for a number of these groups when the auto deletion was turned off, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Fair to say that there is an indication for most of the groups that you list here when the auto-delete feature was turned off, correct?
MARC TROIANO: I don't know the exact percentage, but a good amount, yes.
MR. EVERDELL: I think you testified that there were 325 groups, correct, and that 288 had auto delete turned on?
JUDGE KAPLAN: Mr. Everdell, it's a chart. You can just look at it. If you want to count them and decide whether it's most or some or a few, you can do it.
MR. EVERDELL: Sure.
Why don't we just look at the first page, if we could.
MR. EVERDELL: Special Agent Troiano, you see on this first page as an example the first 1, 2, and then skip to 3, 4, 5, 6 -- I am just counting which ones have auto deletion turned off. I count on the first page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, indicating that they are turned off, right?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: You see that?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And those turned-off dates are in the November 2022 time frame, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes, they are.
MR. EVERDELL: If there is an indication that auto deletion was turned off, that account was at least active during that time for auto deletion to be turned off at that time, correct?
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained as to form.
MR. EVERDELL: We will move on to a different topic.
We will keep the chart up, if we could, please.
MR. EVERDELL: Your chart, you testified, indicates the date when the messages in the chats, at least some of them, were set to auto delete, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: And it identifies how long the auto-delete function was set for before it deleted the message, correct?
MS. KUDLA: Objection.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Ground.
MS. KUDLA: Asked and answered.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Yes, I think so. Sustained.
MR. EVERDELL: Looking through your chart, and we can use the first page as an example, there is an indication of when the auto-deletion function was set and for how long, right?
MS. KUDLA: Objection. The chart speaks for itself.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained.
MR. EVERDELL: Let's look at this first page. Just as an example, you see in the auto-deletion status column an indication for how long the auto-deletion status was set for for these chat groups on the first page, correct?
MS. KUDLA: Objection. Asked and answered and speaks for itself.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained.
MR. EVERDELL: Is it fair to say that the duration of the auto delete was set for, the ones on the first page generally, between one week and four weeks?
MS. KUDLA: Same objection, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Same ruling.
MR. EVERDELL: Looking at that first row, the hashtag organization --
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: -- Signal group, you see in the auto-deletion status column that auto deletion was turned off, correct?
MS. KUDLA: Objection. Asked and answered.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained. This is not helpful.
MR. EVERDELL: All right, your Honor.
I just want to point out one thing with certain columns, if I could.
MR. EVERDELL: If you could look at number 1 that we just saw. If you could also look at number 5 and number 6, which are also on the same page.
You see those, Special Agent Troiano?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Those all indicate that it was SBF who turned off the auto deletion, correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes, I believe those were the only three.
MR. EVERDELL: Thank you.
Let's look at one other or a few others. If you could take a look at number 29, row 29.
MS. KUDLA: Objection, your Honor. At this point we are reading the chart.
JUDGE KAPLAN: That's correct.
MR. EVERDELL: I have not even asked my question yet.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Ask your question.
MR. EVERDELL: I just want to take a look at the participants on the chart here for number 29.
MR. EVERDELL: Special Agent Troiano, you see the name -- one of the participants is named Ryne Miller?
MS. KUDLA: Objection, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Sustained.
This is not an exam for new eyeglasses. I assume he can read it just as well as everybody in the jury box can read it.
MR. EVERDELL: I am simply going to ask if he knows who Ryne Miller is.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Why don't you just ask him that.
MS. KUDLA: Objection, your Honor, to that question. It goes beyond the scope.
JUDGE KAPLAN: You can ask him who Johnny Podres was. Let's move along. He pitched for the Brooklyn Dodgers.
MR. EVERDELL: Let's look at number 201, if we could.
MR. EVERDELL: You see that row, number 201, that group -- the name of that group is KYC/legal discuss, is that correct?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: Do you see that the auto-delete function was enabled for that group?
MARC TROIANO: Yes.
MR. EVERDELL: What was the duration of the auto-deletion function for that group?
MS. KUDLA: Objection, your Honor, 403, and this goes to the Court's pretrial rulings.
JUDGE KAPLAN: I'll allow that question.
MARC TROIANO: It was one week.
MR. EVERDELL: One moment, your Honor.
Nothing further, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Thank you.
Ms. Kudla.
MS. KUDLA: No redirect, your Honor.
JUDGE KAPLAN: Thank you. You're excused, Agent Troiano.